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Lyria Skydancer
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Posted - 2008.03.23 03:26:00 -
[1]
It is boring and yeah everyone and their mom has a falcon alt. Its getting annoying and isnt really adding anything to the game except a FOTM. *trains a falcon alt herself to keep up with everyone* -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare |
Lyria Skydancer
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Posted - 2008.03.23 09:12:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Methem
you add nothing to this thread
Because its the truth? -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare |
Lyria Skydancer
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Posted - 2008.03.23 11:45:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Grimpak
sure, WTB 200km range damps. and do tell where I can get such "solopwning" gallente recon that can do more damage than a curse/pilgrim, be as quick as the huginn/rapier and able to remove 2-3 ships out of the battle like the rook/falcon.
Actually both caldari and gallente recons outdamage curse and pilgrim. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare |
Lyria Skydancer
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Posted - 2008.03.23 14:21:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 23/03/2008 14:21:54
Originally by: Waxau End of the day, this thread contains all the players who dont understand how ecm works, and just whine when they find themselves jammed for consecutive turns.
Need i point folks to the immature postings and such. For example, as Lyrias retort
Quote: Because its the truth
Well done Lyria.
Im just stating my oppinion. Im training a falcon alt myself but it doesnt friggin mean I have to like where this game is going. You can rant all you want about how hard ECM'ing is in a falcon, I dont care. I still find it boring.
...or is this about something else? -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II |
Lyria Skydancer
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Posted - 2008.03.24 12:03:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Waxau
Why should the falcon all of a sudden be burdened, just because damps got nerfed? Because make no mistake - Most of the falcon abusers are ex-damp abusers and dont want to lose their fotm again after training caldari recons when damps got nerfed.
Fixed. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II |
Lyria Skydancer
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Posted - 2008.03.24 14:30:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 24/03/2008 14:30:14 Many are missing the point because they got their alt so close to finishing up the falcon training: The point is there is no other ship that simply uncloaks and totally skews the balance of a fight. It simply appears and totally turns the tide of battles. There is no other recon that comes close doing this.
You can calculate or moan all you like, the truth is: It is annoying as hell. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II |
Lyria Skydancer
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Posted - 2008.03.24 14:37:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Cerui Tarshiel
This however is offset by the fact it's got no self defence except for chance based ewar
Yeah, because its not safe enough to sit at 150km distance? Tbh Id have no problems in nerfing falcons range but giving it more defense inline with other recons. Thats what youre driving at, isnt it? That its ok that we could nerf ecm down to the state of the other ew forms just as long as falcon tanks as good as they do (wich is not much fyi).
Sure Im up for this change but I know all the falcon pilots are not because this excuse is a lie. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II |
Lyria Skydancer
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Posted - 2008.03.24 14:38:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Ayanami Nova
There is zero reason to choose a rook over a falcon, I fly a falcon and it is too powerful. reduce its range or reduce its ECM bonus to 10% or 15%. The rook should be better at its specialised ECM role.
This is a universal problem for all recons (except pilgrim vs curse), the cloaking ones simply are better. Cloaking recons need a serious nerf and/or combat recons need a serious dps buff. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II |
Lyria Skydancer
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Posted - 2008.03.24 14:53:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 24/03/2008 14:53:35
Originally by: Cerui Tarshiel
As for sitting at 150 km being safe? not really, tri and several other laugh at 150km being safe for falcons (even just having a inty buzzing around you, however easy they are to jam is unsettling). Besides you are away from the rest of the gang so if things so downhill (and they do so very very fast if things go wrong) they won't have chance to bail you out.
Not everyone is in a 50-150 man fleet with snipers reaching out to those ranges. There is something called small gang and solo pvp. Something a few of us like to defend and keep alive. No one has any issues with falcons being effective in larger fleet warfare. They are fine there because both sides will have em. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II |
Lyria Skydancer
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Posted - 2008.03.24 15:27:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Cerui Tarshiel
Did I ever say snipers? if I meant snipers I wouldn't have mentioned tri because most alliances that actively pvp can field at least some kindof a sniper bs fleet. And the only largish engagement I've actually been in was 40 of us vs 50 tri with us having the snipers+support and the tri gang being nanoed (t'was great fun btw).
What I meant that inties and good number of nanohacs have no problem getting out to you in very short amount of time and either force you off or kill you.
As for solo *shrug* been on the recciving end of ecm myself while soloing and it's just something you have to deal with while flying solo.
But youre still talking about big fleets. What about the small gang warfare. Like a BC + a BS + an inty + a cruiser + a hac kinda thing? Where is the love? Nerf the lameness. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II |
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Lyria Skydancer
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Posted - 2008.03.24 16:32:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
It's a sad state of affairs that real 'solo' PvP-ers have falcon alts
And, yes, the cloaking recons are simply better then the non-cloaking recons for all concieveable situations. Mainly because (except the Pilgrim) inherit range bonuses from the combat varieties.
Hope youre not implying that Im using a falcon in my movies, Im not. (Still got months to go for a falcon alt sadly)
I agree that combat recons cant get a huge boost because they would become hacs. I think all combat recons are where they should be but there needs to be something done to all the cloaking force recons. They all need a nerf. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II |
Lyria Skydancer
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Posted - 2008.03.24 16:39:00 -
[12]
Originally by: welsh wizard
If you don't play this game well enough to deal with a range advantage then thats your problem, not the ships. ECM is easily dealt with if you know how
Dont try the "you suck but Im not gonna tell you why" trick. No, ecm is not easily dealt with if you know how. Dont lie.
Originally by: welsh wizard
If they nerf it again you better bloody well believe that the Rook/Falcons combat application should be increased inline with the other 3 races
I see no problem with this. The problem is mostly for you when you realize that the combat application of the other recons is very poor and you'll pray to get your old 150km recon back.
-------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II |
Lyria Skydancer
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Posted - 2008.03.24 16:43:00 -
[13]
Originally by: welsh wizard
Also codswallop, Huginn is infinitely better in a close range fight, locks faster, tanks better and does a hell of alot more damage
No its not, rapier is better overall and rapiers is what you see everywhere. People flying huginns are just the recon pilots that are bored and want to pewpew and do more dps just for the heck of it.
Originally by: welsh wizard
Curse is a fantastic ship but we already know you've made your bias little mind up on that one don't we?
Curses die to alot of ships. Its not even half as good as people claim. You nano it? No TDs? You die to injected zealots and harbingers. You dont nano it? You die to everything bigger then a cruiser. No curse aint good. It has limited uses in gangs. For solo both amarr hacs outperform it by large margins.
Originally by: welsh wizard
Pilgrim needs a nos/neut range boost.
It needs something, yes. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II |
Lyria Skydancer
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Posted - 2008.03.24 16:45:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 24/03/2008 16:44:58
Originally by: Corstaad Every PvP game I've played there is the same whines. People get fussy if someone else can do something they can't or are not willing to do. Everyone should adapt to them and we're all stupid. When you get done with this thread and start a nano thread please list yourself as a carebear or forumwhhore.
Youre claiming that ALL whines in ALL games are not valid? Cool, because with that logic there wouldnt be any game balance patches. Maybe some people on the forums would rather like an even playground for all choices in the game. Instead you seem to dispise those people and cheer for fotm chasers. I find that odd. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II |
Lyria Skydancer
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Posted - 2008.03.24 17:00:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Malbolge
Originally by: Dexton Azeroth has no jammers, I suggest you move there. New eden is for people that use their head to solf problems.
Warlock fears.
AMG, nerf fear!!11
And they nerfed fear. Day will come when theyll nerf ecm on falcons. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II |
Lyria Skydancer
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Posted - 2008.03.24 17:59:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 24/03/2008 17:59:38
Originally by: Merdaneth PIE runs an all Amarr fleet. This is the Falcon we typically face:
6x White Noise ECM, 1x MWD 3x 'Hypnos' Signal Amp 2x ECM rigs
We find a Typhoon/Domi outside the station. One Geddon undocks and draws aggro. Hostile returns fire, two more Geddons and a Zealot undock too to help. Falcon uncloaks at 150km. Two of the Geddon's have 1x ECCM fitted (standard policy at that time) one has not. Zealot has (obviously) no ECCM, but MWD/web/scram.
Jam strength is between 14-15. Geddon base sensor strength is 17.
1x Geddon without ECCM: 85% chance of jam. Including relock time, that Geddon is effectively taken out of the fight by a single jammer. 2x Geddon with ECCM: 42% to jam with a single jammer, 68% with two, 82% with three 1x Zealot: 100% chance with a single jammer
Geddon's try to fight, and occasionally get a few shots in. Guns are largely disabled, remote repping assistance is large disabled. Zealot runs at the Falcon, but as soon as it comes close, one jammer takes it out permanently. Geddons are unable to concentrate enough fire to take down the Typhoon. Once one Geddon is down, its really all over. Jam odds only increase from now on.
Without ECCM, one Falcon like that pretty much disables a single ship of nearly any type for each of its jammer. Obviously, when a known hostile with Falcon alt is sitting outside the station, nobody engages anymore, unless a large blob can be formed. and preferably ECCM'ed battleships. Anything else is pretty much rendered ineffective, even with ECCM fitted.
ECM is not that bad, but racial ECM can be a rather annoying. Stacking your (limited) mids full of otherwise useless ECCM's for the off chance that a Falcon is out there waiting is also rather annoying. But if we don't, we're pretty much ****** once a single Falcon does turn up.
This is the problem. Small gang warfare dies. But thats not what the falcon fanbois would like you to belive. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II |
Lyria Skydancer
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Posted - 2008.03.24 18:18:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Ulstan All these falcon whines are interesting, since the falcon jams as well as the rook did before, yet that almost never attracted any whines until the RSD's were (over)nerfed.
Thats because rook doesnt have a cov ops cloak. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II |
Lyria Skydancer
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Posted - 2008.03.24 18:34:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 24/03/2008 18:33:51
Originally by: xxxak
Yes, ECM ships can cause problems, but frankly so can any HAC or Recon.
No they cant. Not in the same way. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II |
Lyria Skydancer
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Posted - 2008.03.24 18:41:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Etho Demerzel
The whiners on this thread seem to conveniently "forget" that all you need near the Falcon is one interceptor in your gang to warp death into it...
And how are the friends of the inty gonna warp when they are tackled and involved in close combat 150km away? -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II |
Lyria Skydancer
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Posted - 2008.03.24 18:52:00 -
[20]
Originally by: xxxak
A single Vaga can easily strip a 10 man gang of it's frigate support, unless the frigate pilots are flying/obeying perfectly (something that never happens in PvP).
Yeah if the frig pilots are idiots. One brave inty would be able to tackle down a vaga near his friends and then its all over. Not every gang is beyond stupid you know. That is no argument.
Originally by: xxxak
A single Huginn can **ruin** a small nano gang, assuming it has a few ships supporting it (few Drakes even).
Yeah a small nano gang maybe. But everything above 3-4 nano hacs will destroy the huginn before he can do anything. Been there done that. It doesnt work like that.
Originally by: xxxak
I have seen two Ishtars kill a battleship in 15 seconds. With almost no risk to them.
I bet you havent.
Originally by: xxxak
A Falcon can remove the DPS of one, maybe two ships. It can't kill anything, btw. It's great at what it does, but is it hardly overpowered.
Uhm, a falcon can pretty much perma jam 2 battleships. Or jam several ships if they are smaller size then a BS. Yeah it is overpowered and it will get nerfed. Youll see. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II |
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Lyria Skydancer
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Posted - 2008.03.24 20:32:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Cautet
Please don't ask for game mechanics to be changed to overcome limitations you place on yourself.
Oh dont worry about me, Im training a falcon alt as we speak. 3-4 weeks left now. Im not the one thats going to get hurt by this imbalance. Its just boring and lame, it is... -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II |
Lyria Skydancer
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Posted - 2008.03.24 20:53:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Etho Demerzel
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: Etho Demerzel
The whiners on this thread seem to conveniently "forget" that all you need near the Falcon is one interceptor in your gang to warp death into it...
And how are the friends of the inty gonna warp when they are tackled and involved in close combat 150km away?
Because ALL of the inty friends will be tackled right? You often tackle ALL enemy ships in the opposing gang at once right?
And even if that was true, you can't have a cloaked ship waiting for Falcon, can you? Like god forbid me a Pilgrim. A pilgrim would kill a falcon so fast it wouldn't even be funny...
Truth is, there are a so many counters to ECM ships it is nothing even funny. These are just 2 simple examples. All you need is to be able to use your brain, and make the conditions favorable to you, which unfortunately whiners are uncapable of doing...
Oh so youll split your group in half? Leave 2 tackled ships behind and warp 2-3 to the falcon? Sorry but youre clueless. It doesnt work. Before you pull that off the falcon will warp off or cloak. Or even worse he'll warp off right before those 2-3 ships come out of warp and your gang is split in two. The 2 ships left behind get ganked while your inty now flies to the other direction for another warp in point to your friends that are dying. Before you get there they are dead and youre outnumbered and falcon comes back at 150km and does the same again.
It does not work and youre just theory-crafting and its no better then the people living in eft and on sisi that barely know what pvp is on tranq. Please long on tranquility before you present solutions like this. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II |
Lyria Skydancer
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Posted - 2008.03.24 21:44:00 -
[23]
Originally by: xxxak
Originally by: Reto
yes a vagabond is as powerful as a falcon (N00B).
you sir are a caldari fanboi not understanding overall gamebalance which is not there to benefit one race at the cost of all others but support a natural balance between those 4 which helps to maintain a fair and balanced battle system where players can decide battles by tactics and knowldge and not by simply getting a flavor of the month ship. after you played eve for a while youll realize this.
If you really believe a Vaga bond is not as powerful as a Falcon, then explain to me why ~40% of 0.0 pvpers (offensive) fly a Vaga and only 15% fly a Caldari Recon?
Because 95% of pvpers are not real pvpers but are cowards. Vagas are the easiest getaways and do decent damage. Todays ship popularity is about wich ship has the highest survival rate and not power. Wich is sad. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II |
Lyria Skydancer
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Posted - 2008.03.24 21:59:00 -
[24]
Originally by: xxxak Well call them cowards or call them smart, but the fact remains that until we fix the "nano situation" it makes the "ECM situation" look just fine.
Id sign for fixing both. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II |
Lyria Skydancer
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Posted - 2008.03.24 22:14:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Etho Demerzel
You have no arguments.
We'll let ccp decide that in the near future. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II |
Lyria Skydancer
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Posted - 2008.03.24 22:41:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 24/03/2008 22:40:55
Originally by: Ogul
Yea, shame on the other guy for suggestion actually going after the ship that causes you all that trouble. What an idiot...
He wasnt suggesting it. He was presenting it as a solution, wich it is not. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II |
Lyria Skydancer
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Posted - 2008.03.24 22:44:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 24/03/2008 22:44:46 Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 24/03/2008 22:44:33
Originally by: Etho Demerzel
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 24/03/2008 22:40:55
Originally by: Ogul
Yea, shame on the other guy for suggestion actually going after the ship that causes you all that trouble. What an idiot...
He wasnt suggesting it. He was presenting it as a solution, wich it is not.
Whines are the last resource of the incompetent.
I wonder who the incompetent people are. The falcon fanbois or the people trying to have some small scale fun? -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II |
Lyria Skydancer
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Posted - 2008.03.24 23:35:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 24/03/2008 23:35:48
Originally by: Etho Demerzel
I have a suggestion: look at the mirror :)
The incompetent are those that want to dumbify the game because they can't think outside the box to deal adequately with anything that is not "me shoot you with my big gun".
Yeah because jamming and getting jammed adds alot to the game. Especially when you cant even see that ship on the scanner.
You know whats funny? This thread is already 6 pages long. You know why? Because there is a problem with the falcon.
If I would go make a thread saying "Arazu is overpowered, nerf it!", the thread would die after 5-6 replies.
Youre so afraid that youre going to lose your fotm that you and your fanboi pals are panicing all over the place and trying to flame out people that are trying to come up with a solution to this problem. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II |
Lyria Skydancer
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Posted - 2008.03.24 23:51:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Etho Demerzel
I see only you and at most 2-3 Amarr people here complaining about it. Everybody else is telling you to stfu. The fact that this thread has 6 pages, means only the BS you are tallking is so outrageous that even people like me, who almost never post, are willing to use their time to say how obnoxious and wrong you are.
That was exactly my point. If our posts were obnoxious people wouldnt even answer them. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II |
Lyria Skydancer
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Posted - 2008.03.24 23:52:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Altai Saker If you want to jam like a falcon you should be in a rook. Falcon needs to have its jam strength reduced from 20% to 15%.
This would be a start. Also add a bit of ECCM boost. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II |
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Lyria Skydancer
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Posted - 2008.03.26 13:58:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Derek Sigres
Originally by: Theron Gyrow
In my opinion, a good definition of "overpowered" is that you either fly it or you specifically set up against it (or you die).
I guess that makes guns overpowered? Afterall, if I don't fit some sort of tank to protect me against the slings and arrows thrown my way I pretty much crumple instantly.
No your logic is faulty. Guns go on every ship. Everyone can use it and dps from guns are balanced to their range. What we have (to correct your analogy) here is rather that some ships get to fit guns that shoot 150km while others can only fit a T1 tank that only protects against those special guns but does nothing else. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II |
Lyria Skydancer
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Posted - 2008.03.26 17:57:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Caldari in fleets: check Minmatar in skirmishes: check Amarr in mid size gangs: check Gallente in small gang combat: no check
And yes, Gallente specialize in very small gang combat (see: drones suck in fleets).
-Liang
Uhm Gallente is the best solo race because of perfect slot layouts for it and with no need to keep multiple aggressors at a certain distance.
Gallente: Solo pvp. Check. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II |
Lyria Skydancer
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Posted - 2008.03.26 18:03:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
and who PVP's solo anymore anyway?
-Liang
I do. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II |
Lyria Skydancer
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Posted - 2008.03.27 22:16:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Honestly, the problem is not "ECM is off the charts", it's that its "off the charts" compared to the other recently nerfed forms of offensive ewar (damps, TDs)
-Liang
Honestly all other forms of EW is right where it should be and its actually ecm that is off the charts. Its a matter of oppinion and not right or wrong tbh... -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II |
Lyria Skydancer
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Posted - 2008.03.28 15:12:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Danny Centurai As we all should know by now Falcons and Rooks are gang ships if they were soloWTFpwnage mobiles there would be a problem.
Yes but we dont want them totally dominating and killing small gang warfare. With small gangs its either you bring your own falcon or you lose to a gang with a falcon. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II |
Lyria Skydancer
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Posted - 2008.03.28 17:32:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Scarlet Pimpernel
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: Danny Centurai As we all should know by now Falcons and Rooks are gang ships if they were soloWTFpwnage mobiles there would be a problem.
Yes but we dont want them totally dominating and killing small gang warfare. With small gangs its either you bring your own falcon or you lose to a gang with a falcon.
Or you could fit ECCM/sensor backups.....
sure, if they get fixed. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II |
Lyria Skydancer
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Posted - 2008.03.28 22:19:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Scarlet Pimpernel
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer sure, if they get fixed.
In my experience they work just fine (I often fit them to my Scorp/Falcon/Rook if I know the other guys have ECM)
What makes you say/think they are broken?
In my experience they dont. If a falcon wants to jam you, he'll jam you and it doesnt matter what defense youve fitted. Its stupid. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II |
Lyria Skydancer
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Posted - 2008.03.28 22:21:00 -
[38]
Originally by: welsh wizard
Yes but we dont want them totally dominating and killing small gang warfare. With small gangs its either you bring your own falcon or you lose to a gang with a falcon.
With the exception of about 6 months from mid 2007 ECM has always been this powerful. It was crap during those 6 months so not many people flew ECM ships which is why CCP buffed it. The problem isnt the game its you and this chronosx joker above, you're bashing it before you've even attempted to deal with it (my assumption). Maybe you should play something a bit easier? o7
Huh? Ive prolly seen more sides of eve pvp then youll ever see. ECM sucks and is killing the spirit of the game. Maybe you should go look for another game if you can only play with ECM ships. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II |
Lyria Skydancer
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Posted - 2008.03.29 00:16:00 -
[39]
Originally by: welsh wizard
You're like I was 18 months ago, arguing anything and everything on these silly forums without any real evidence and just a subjective opinion. I have no desire to get into a ****ing contest with you but lets just say I've seen my fair share of Eve, far more than any 2006 character has anyway.
So when are you then finally going to admit that ECM is out of balance? Because you know it is. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II |
Lyria Skydancer
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Posted - 2008.03.29 00:31:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
So when are you going to finally admit that lasers are out of balance? You know they are, especially when they're shooting at shield tanks. 0% EM resist FTL.
Even the Curse is a 1 man pwn machine, able to take on 3 vagabonds at a time and wtfpwn them all (and we all know how overpowered the Vagabond is!)
What? It's just as true as claiming that ECM is overpowered.
-Liang
But amarr need to have the strongest weapons. Why?
-Amarr cant have enslaved minmatar with crummy weaponry, background story fails.
-Amarr have prettiest weapon effects, that must be the best.
-------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II |
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